Хочу избавиться от "рунглиша" Страница 3

2012-05-23 17:41:52

Плохая новость: полностью от ранглиша избавится не удастся. Хорошая новость, если по 6 часов в день заниматься лексикой (учить статьи и фильмы наизусть) за год можно приблизить свой ранглиш вплотную к инглишу. Но не каждый это может сделать. Без фанатизьма и хорошего репетитора в энтом деле - никуда.

2012-05-23 17:43:07

Fox

без please, это рунглиш

2012-05-23 17:43:08

"I never said" - вполне правильно.

2012-05-23 17:51:53

интересно до ужаса
А вы как бы написали? :))

2012-05-23 17:54:23

Zy11

Дусь, заметьте, что это не я :) Я аккаунтоблудтством не занимаюсь :)

2012-05-23 17:57:50

EnglishThirsty
Да я заметила, you are very nice, you can provide your version too:))

2012-05-23 18:05:28

Zy11

Исключительно ради вас.

Because rain is coming down, and as more water as heavier it is, very logical, based on a weight, wind on another side does not have weight but only a power, that's why wind is strong.


Я бы написал это так.

Since rain drops come down, more water means more weight. Very logical. Wind, on the other hand, is weightless but still has some power, that's why they say that wind is strong.

2012-05-23 18:09:26

Satellite

Мне, например, понравилась книжка Линн Виссен о распространенных ошибках русских в английской речи.

I have never heard anything about this author. So I have googled for this name, and I am greatly disappointed about wasting even a few minutes of mine time on it… It sounds like one of these "Dummies" series books, where a Russian is portrayed as someone who cannot figure out difference between “home” and “house”, or “Miss” and “girl” and needs detail explanations from the author. There is also a big question about quality of those explanations. For instance:

Хотя такие неправильные глагольные формы, как I gonna или I wanna, можно услышать на улице, в автобусе, в барах и ресторанах, их употребление является для прилично воспитанного американца признаком того, что он имеет дело с человеком из низов общества. Еще худшее впечатление оставляют о себе те русские, которые уснащают английскую речь распространенными вульгаризмами вроде Wazzup?, то есть What's up? («Что происходит, что нового?») и Move it! («Ну, пошли, быстро!»).

Not that I advocate their use ‘gonne/wanna’ by English learners, but information about their usage is clearly misleading. Many educated speakers use ‘gonna’ and ‘wanna’ contractions, especially in informal settings or fast speech. Not that they do it consciously but it is easier to pronounce those words in this way, so it happens naturally, and it sounds naturally… While English learners who are trying to imitate those contractions often sound trashy and uneducated… As to ‘Wazzup?’, it is hardly a question but a very casual way of greeting, which is used by some people but strongly frowned upon by many others…

You know, I went through a few more pages, there was hardly anything new or interesting in them, but then this:

Гости из России обычно не знают, как обратиться в ресторане к официанту, и просят его: Bring me soup!

Usually?! WTF?
Usually people learn how politely to ask for something at the beginner level.

You know, maybe this book somewhere in following chapters, but I have had enough of it… Besides, you cannot learn much English by reading a book how to translate some Russian phrases into English. While a good-phrase book can be helpful for beginners to survive in English speaking environment, you cannot learn any language in this way. To speak fluently, you have to associate English words and phrases with some imaginary (movie, book) or real life situations, and not with some Russian words and expressions.

BTW, the title page says that the book an authorized translation from English. Strangely enough, I can’t find the English version. I have looked at Amazon and some other places, there are some other books of that author but not this title…

2012-05-23 18:11:48

Zy11

Because rain is coming down, and as more water as heavier it is, very logical, based on a weight, wind on another side does not have weight but only a power, that's why wind is strong.

Very interesting… I have never thought about it in this way… But then “wind” can also be described as “heavy” or does it happen only when it comes from the top? :)

2012-05-23 18:14:11

EnglishThirsty
Ок, зачет, согласна side replace with hand, остальное и так нормально, коммент : о, на каком языке, был как всегда чересчур, коммент не ваш, никаких претензий.

2012-05-23 18:15:06

EnglishThirsty
Ок, зачет, согласна side replace with hand, остальное и так нормально, коммент : о, на каком языке, был как всегда чересчур, коммент не ваш, никаких претензий.

2012-05-23 18:19:29

deaptor
I am afraid to write anything since some people are very sensitive :)) but I think Russian word сильный has more meanings than English strong. Then there are some traditional figures of speech. I am always looking for mathematical logic in a language.

2012-05-23 18:19:51

Because rain is coming down, and as more water as heavier it is, very logical, based on a weight, wind on another side does not have weight but only a power, that's why wind is strong.

Somehow, this line of reasoning is reminiscent of Зелли.

2012-05-23 18:20:30

deaptor
I am afraid to write anything since some people are very sensitive :)) but I think Russian word сильный has more meanings than English strong. Then there are some traditional figures of speech. I am always looking for mathematical logic in a language.

2012-05-23 18:26:36

yeah, we know that rain is heavy, especially when it's raining cats and dogs!

2012-05-23 18:33:16

Milanya
Нет, это всего лишь Dusya's train of thought. Напомню, что Dusya - "настоящая американка", а все про какой-то рунглиш толкуют. ))

2012-05-23 18:37:29

интересно до ужаса, а это уже переход на личности. Некрасиво.

2012-05-23 18:42:42

Milanya
Нет, мы обсуждаем не Дусю, а американский английский.

2012-05-23 18:55:10

especially when it's raining cats and dogs!


Chaika, I thought ‘to rain cats and dogs’ the phrase is kind of out of date, is it?

2012-05-23 18:56:03

Zy11

I bet your studies in brain functioning are going in a limited direction, brain is just a tool, you need to read complex studies conducted by physicists of last century starting from Einstein, very interesting.


brain is just a tool but language is what makes us human.
I wonder, if Brain is a part of us and Language is a part of us, how about if we want Brain and Language to be best friends?
I don't now exactly how, but yes there is one thing called "ideal speech" and we can use it to accomplish solution to this question.

Zy11
Ok, I bet your research of brain processing power is limmeted by following your current worldview and accumulated lore. To me, brain is just a tool, so maybe, you simply read appropriate material for brain issues from the greate physicists whose portraits I've had in my room, really useful things, and it works for me!

and I might even go so far to say that it was a great way for me to get interested and excited about brain researching as well as helping to develop my imaginations.

^))

2012-05-23 18:56:05

especially when it's raining cats and dogs!

Interestingly enough, I have never heard this expression in real life from real people. In books and movies I have heard it plenty of times.
Why is that?

2012-05-23 19:06:03

Interestingly enough, I have never heard this expression in real life from real people. In books and movies I have heard it plenty of times.
Why is that?


Milanya, as far as I know it’s an idiom that is no longer commonly used.))

2012-05-23 19:09:04

интересно до ужаса
Надо же как кого то задело:)) ну так пишите и вы, что прячетесь под чужими никами? Где вариант?

2012-05-23 19:10:50

as far as I know

What is the source of your knowledge? Textbooks, books, learning programs, personal knowledge, etc.?

2012-05-23 19:11:42

интересно до ужаса
Надо же как кого то задело:)) ну так пишите и вы, что прячетесь под чужими никами? Где вариант?

2012-05-23 19:14:15

Milanya

Interestingly enough, I have never heard this expression in real life from real people. In books and movies I have heard it plenty of times.
Why is that?

Because they are trying to be funny.
The last time I heard it it was "It was raining cats and dogs, and I stepped into a poodle".

2012-05-23 19:41:21

Milanya

What is the source of your knowledge? Textbooks, books, learning programs, personal knowledge, etc.?


You can check this:

It's raining cats and dogs! (old-fashioned)
something that you say when it is raining very heavily It's raining cats and dogs out there! It's a wonder any of the men can see what they're doing!
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/rain


Or this (a used named duden wrote):

Hi, I was told by an American friend of mine that the idiom "it´s raining cats and dogs" is no more used by younger people and that it sounds rather archaic. She told me I should use "It´s pouring" instead. But the class I´m teaching English likes this expression very much, so decided to ask some more people about this.
Thank you in advance
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=276446


Actually it wasn't me who used that phrase on this thread.)) You need to ask Chaika instead.

2012-05-23 19:49:55

You can check this:http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/rain Or this http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=276446

I see. Thank you.

You need to ask Chaika instead.

I did not send my question to you personally. I posted it on the forum.
Also, I asked a few of my co-workers. They said that they had hot heard it in ages.

2012-05-23 20:21:10

deaptor
I totally agree with you on using monolingual dictionaries and I like using them but since I'm a translator to be I have to use bilingual dictionaries as well. No one would be satisfied with my vague translation consisting of several words/word combinations; I need to present a russian equivalent.
I understand the distinction between some words (like where to use... oh, I really have trouble finding an example :D) so not all of them are translated from russian into english literally. But I do have gaps and I truly want to get rid of them.
I enjoyed the book anyways. There were a lot of useful information since I'm a newbie :D There were some things that were not true (gonna, wanna - agreed). I talked about them with my american fellows and they clarified some information. And yes, I would've read it in English if I had found an english version of the book.
There's a lot of talking going on here I barely have time to respond =)

Mike
Спасибо за наводку на конкретный словарь. Я сначала обрадовался, найдя его у себя книжной полке, но, к сожалению, тот, который у меня есть, посвящен идиомам. Я правильно понял, что как раз в NTC's Dictionary of Everyday American English Expressions, у меня будет возможность увидеть, что надо использоваться именно "heavy rain" вместо "strong rain"? Весьма вероятно, что я бы сказал второе. Это меня больше всего и беспокоит.

2012-05-23 20:23:00

Делайте что хотите, только не слушайте по утрам американских политиков :-)

boingboing.net/2012/05/22/congresss-vocabulary-falls-a.html
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