ФорумПеревод, грамматика и словарный запас
correct please!!!

2003-08-24 13:55:54
mystery

Гость


Hi everyone!I need your help.Could you,please,correct the sentences below and explain why we should say in that way.

Here are the sentences:
1.I have a beautiful jumper which was knitted by my grandmother.
2.The tables will have been set(can I say must be set?)before the restaurant opens tonight.
3.Tickets are being sold until the day of the concert.
4.When the flood is taking place,crops are destroyed and homes are damaged.
5.I am going to home now because all the work is done/has been done.(I think the both variets are correct)
6.The thieves have been arrested/are arrested.(are the both variets correct or which one is correct?)
7.The hospital was built in the site of the old Opera House and then the largest hospital in the county.

Thanks in advance.

2003-08-24 14:43:08
BaRRRiLLLo

Гость

Consider this:

1. I have a beautiful jumper my grandmom has knitted.
2. The tables should have been set by the restaurant opens tonight.
3. Tickets are avaliable till the concert day.
4. While flood the crops are being destroyed and houses are being damaged.
5. Now I am going home because all the work is done.(i've finished the work).
6. The thieves are under arrest/were arrested.
7. ?

Take it or Leave it




2003-08-25 06:02:12
Mike

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Okay, let's see what we can do...
1.I have a beautiful jumper which was knitted by my grandmother.
This one's okay.
2.The tables will have been set(can I say must be set?)before the restaurant opens tonight.
I see no reason why you should use the Future Perfect tense in this sentence. "The tables must be set before/by the time the restaurant opens tonight" is fine.
3.Tickets are being sold until the day of the concert.
Well, it's quite all right, too, however...not to put too fine a point on it, but who would want to buy tickets after the concert?
4.When the flood is taking place,crops are destroyed and homes are damaged.
"During flooding, crops are destroyed and homes are damage" would be slightly better, I believe.
5.I am going to home now because all the work is done/has been done.(I think the both variets are correct)
Arrive/return/go home - no preposition. All the work has been done/is completed(finished).
6.The thieves have been arrested/are arrested.(are the both variets correct or which one is correct?)
Have been arrested/were arrested. The Present Simple might imply something that happens habitually.
7.The hospital was built in the site of the old Opera House and then the largest hospital in the county.
"one the site". The second part of the sentence is a sentence fragment because there is no predicate. Consider changing to "at that time it was the largest hospital in the country".

2003-08-25 07:00:55
mystery

Гость


Thanks,Mike,very much.
2003-08-25 07:25:15
Bond

Гость

I have a beautiful jumper which was knitted by my grandmother.

Americans will say this is bad and poor English, the passive voice is abused, (if there's a subject pssive should not be used)
I have a beautiful jumper that my granny has knitted
I have a beautiful coat that was bought by my mother(wrong)
I have a beautiful coat that my mother bought for me(has bought)
2003-08-25 09:14:50
Mike

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Nope, Bond, I don't think Americans will say "this is bad and poor English" and "the passive voice is abused". There is no such rule as "if there is a subject passive should not be used. Here is a perfectly acceptable sentence from "English Workshop" by John E.Warriner, an acclaimed American grammarian :"This is the letter that was written by Migdalia".
The logical stress in the sentence "I have a beautiful sweater, which was knitted by my grandmother" falls on "the sweater", and the nonrestrictive -which clause simply adds incidental information; therefore, you would not greatly improve this sentence by converting passive to active and emphasizing the doer of the action.
What might really be regarded as "poor English" is the use of the Present Perfect instead of the Past Simple. "Has knitted" suggests that the kind old lady has just finished knitting the jumper - which is not the case, I am sure.
2003-08-25 11:43:22
Bond

Гость

Mike
Well, I don’t claim that if there’s a subject a passive should not be used, what I meant that native speakers tend to use active instead of passive voice, my former teacher(native speaker) told me that it is better to use active voice if it is possible,
I am sure if you refer the question to a native speaker: which is better-which was knitted by my mother or which my mother knitted-he will tell you that both sentences are correct but, he would sure say that the second one sounds better.

What might really be regarded as "poor English" is the use of the Present Perfect instead of the Past Simple. "Has knitted" suggests that the kind old lady has just finished knitting the jumper - which is not the case, I am sure.

Well, Why not, my granny has just finished knitting socks for me and I say to my friend: I really like the socks my granny has knitted for me (knitted)so, a context sets the tone I would say.
I am sure it wouldn't be good English to say, I really like the socks which which were knitted by my granny
Though, I once again say, this is not a mistake, this is I would call awkward English.
As for formal letters, Mikee is right to say that we are likely to come accross (here is the list of goods that was composed by our manager)yes it sounds allright as it is formal speech, but sweater

[b]which was knitted by poor granny, doesn't sound good English,(though I will repeat myself and say that this is not a mistake)
Hope I managed to get the point across, Didn't I Mike?
2003-08-25 13:19:33
Mike

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Bond
Are these two different people speaking?
A -

Americans will say this is bad and poor English

B -

a native speaker... he will tell you that both sentences are correct

My point is, Mr.Bond, that the passive voice does not make this particular sentence "bad, poor English", and I've already stated my reasons why I think so. After all, if the speaker wanted other people to know how much his grandma cared for him, he could say "My grandmother knitted a beautful jumper for me!". See? The dear old lady is spotlighted and she gets all the credit she deserved. One more hint (from Liz&John Soars): Sometimes we prefer to beging a sentence with what is known, and end a sentence with the "news". In the passive, the news can be the agent of the active sentence.
What a lovely painting! Yes. It was painted by Canaletto

Well, Why not, my granny has just finished knitting socks for me...

I am afraid you lost me. This is a totally different case. If your dear granny has just finished knitting socks for you, you [b]do not[/] say: "I have a nice pair of socks". We say "I have this or that" only about something that has been in our possession for a while. The present perfect implies in this case that the action has just been completed and is directly linked to the present. It's okay to say 'Look - what a beautiful jumper my grandma has just knitted for me' (in AmE, "just knitted" is equally correct), but "I have a jumper my grandma has knitted for me" is wrong.
2003-08-25 13:50:17
Bond

Гость

What a good and comprehensive explanation Mike has given me!)
Proverbs prove to be true-Live and Learn
Yes, we always have something to learn,actually we learn by our own mistakes.
BTW, don't you think if we think what isreally grammatically correct we would find that the sentence "I like the sweater my granny knitted for me" has a mistake,
To make it really grammatically correct we will have to say I liked the sweater my granny had knitted for me
But the more I think about it, the more confusing it gets for me.
I'd rather agree with Mike, too hard to argue with him, he is a real Mr.Know All, I wold call him-Ангел Английского Языка-
2003-08-25 13:56:46
Notka

Гость

любопытная переписка... Mike, а он где живет, не в штатах случайно? или там в англии somewhere? :)
2003-08-25 14:02:06
Bond

Гость

NotkaДа действительно если Майкии в Штатах или в Англии живет, то я так не играю, это ведь не честно!)

2003-08-25 14:08:09
Notka

Гость

the way he expresses himself goes for a native, or smb who has stayed there for quite a while, otherewise, he's REALLY smart :)
2003-08-25 14:13:13
Bond

Гость

Notka

otherewise, he's REALLY smart :)

Is he ever!!!
Well, I know some really smart people who haven't lived in America but their English was really so flawless, that it seemed as though they had spent at least three years in an English speaking country, so his brilliant English doesn't necessarily imply that he lives in America or England.
Though, you never know!)
May be he is Putin's personnel translator!)
2003-08-25 14:21:02
Mike

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Bond
Nice doing business with you, Mr.Bond!:-) I just hope that Chaika the Terrible won't blow my reasoning to smithereens.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with the sentence "I like the sweater my granny knitted for me". The other sentence ("I liked the sweater my granny had knitted for me") is equally correct, but it conveys a different idea. The Past Simple is used to express a finished action in the past; if you tell someone "I liked you" that would imply that you no longer find this person attractive.
2003-08-25 14:28:38
Bond

Гость

Mike

Nice doing business with you, Mr.Bond!:-) I just hope that Chaika the Terrible won't blow my reasoning to smithereens.

However smart and cute he(she)is that would be hard to do!)
2003-08-25 15:14:06
Mike

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Notka, Bond - thank you very much, I feel really flattered. You guys are just way too nice!:-)
2003-08-25 15:22:36
Notka

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really, mike, are you one of those FSA students? c'mon, highlight your bio :))

2003-08-25 15:53:29
Mike

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Notka
No, ma'm, I am not "an FSA student". It's just that my job is teaching English - I run a small private English school in Siberia, Russia, and I love English, that's all there is to it. And you know what? Chaika already asked me practically the same question on another forum:

"So, ipso facto, my question to you is - where the hell exactly do you get your fan#$%&*intastic skills in the language of the western tribes? You answer questions before I get to. You must've been livin' here as long as Pap Lazarou! So where is here?"


I cherish these moments...kinda make me feel like King Kong on cocaine, you know?:-)
2003-08-25 16:02:33
Notka

Гость

running "a small private english school in SIBERIA"..., you hear that, bond? so, it's all fair :)

mike, i appreciate your response :) wish we had more teachers like you
2003-08-26 07:23:15
Bond

Гость

MikeWow, if what you said is true, than I take my hat off before you!
By the way do teachers get paid enough in Siberia?
May be you will consider taking me on!)

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